Founders on Fire: Tony Craythorne, CEO, Bamboo Systems Founders on Fire Podcasts Posted by Jon Howell | 16/06/2021 Today we’re catching up with Bamboo Systems, our winner of the 2020 Cloud Trailblazers Award. We get to chat with Tony Craythorne, the CEO for the firm. Chief Trailblazer Rose Ross quizzes him to find out how the company aims to revolutionise the server market, replacing the traditional x86 architecture with ARM servers. Tony explains the potential that Bamboo’s PANDA architecture offers can lead to significant reductions in cost, power consumption, space, and carbon footprint for data centres. He also shares how the company came by its name and how adapting to COVID has changed things for them and startups in general. He also talks about how winning awards can help motivate staff as well as provide valuable third-party validation and marketing. Watch the full podcast here: YouTube: Also available on: SpotifyAnchor Interview transcript Rose Ross: Hello everybody, and I’m delighted to be joined here today on the Tech Trailblazers Founders on Fire podcast and videocast, by Tony Craythorne who is the CEO of our Cloud Trailblazers winner, Bamboo Systems. Hello Tony! Tony Craythorne: Hello Rose, good to see you. How are you? Rose Ross: I’m very well thank you, and how are you doing since we last spoke? Tony Craythorne: I’m good thank you, I’m good. Rose Ross: Well, let’s dive straight in and find out a little bit more about you guys as winners, because obviously you are cited as a Cambridge-based company, but obviously you’re British by your accent, I’m sure everyone has twigged onto that one! But you’re not actually in the UK at the moment are you, you’re based in California. Tony Craythorne: Actually, I recently moved from California, I now live just west of Vegas, about 20 miles west of Vegas in a place called Summerlin. But I still have a place in California, so we kind of hop between the two. But yes, we’re based in Cambridge, all of our operations are based in Cambridge. I obviously haven’t been there for a while, I used to spend at least a week or two a month in Cambridge. I’ve got a flight booked in June and I’m hoping to be able to go back over there this time. Rose Ross: Well, fingers firmly crossed for you. Tony Craythorne: God I hope so, I’m so done with COVID, but I hope so. Rose Ross: Well, I think the whole world will second you, and third you, and fourth you on that one at the moment. Tony Craythorne: Exactly. Rose Ross: So, we can talk a little bit about that, but before we do, let’s talk a little bit about Bamboo, and tell us about the company and what made it shine through in the Trailblazers in our cloud category? Tony Craythorne: So, Bamboo, we launched – shipping, the world first enterprise-class ARM server. The server market is a huge market, my addressable market is about an $80 billion market and is dominated by legacy x86 Intel-based or AMD-based servers. But if you look at a server, especially the back of any HP 2U server, it’s still got a keyboard port, a mouse port, a VGA port, a serial port, that’s when you used plug dot-matrix printers into things. The architecture hasn’t really changed, the processors have got bigger and obviously much bigger and more power hungry, but the actual architecture of an x86 PC hasn’t changed. What has changed though are workloads, where today the workloads are highly parallel, everything’s containerised, AI, ML are leading the way, and Intel chips weren’t designed for that, so people are just throwing more and more compute at the problem, that’s leading to another problem which is data centres today take about four percent of the worlds power energy and it’s getting worse. And we thought there’s a better way to do it. So, we launched an ARM server. I mean the numbers are incredible, we’re saving on average about 75 percent power usage. We’re saving about 80 percent on density and we’re about 50 percent of the cost of a typical Intel server. Everybody said ARM Servers aren’t going to be a thing; just go and ask all the major investors, there’s all the data now that’s showing that ARM Servers will become bigger than x86 Servers in the next 10 years. ADC predict that ARM Servers will be a $100-billion market by 2030. So, we’ve launched the product, it’s going fantastically well, I know we’re going to talk about a bit more about that. But yes, I’ve never seen anything like it, it really is going really well, I’m very lucky. Rose Ross: That’s very cool, it has a cool name as well because I like pandas. Tell us what that stands for, because I do love a cuddly panda. So, it’s not just great technology, it’s also really cute. Tony Craythorne: We’re having so much fun with this brand, we’ve got bloody pandas everywhere. I did a LinkedIn post with a drunk panda on it and got 4,000 views, I’ve never seen anything like it. Rose Ross: It wasn’t the same as the lawyer with the kitten with his amazing filters, was it! Because I think you can push it way beyond, I think he got millions and millions. I’m really not a panda, and I’m definitely not drunk! Tony Craythorne: We’re just having so much fun with this brand. PANDA – it was a girl that used to work for us in Product Management contacted me and said, ‘We need a name for our architecture,’ and I said, ‘Well how can we use panda?’ and then I just literally came out with Parallel ARM No Designed Architecture, and Bamboo Server with PANDA Architecture. But it is a real architecture, what we’ve done is completely redesigned the blade and the inside of the system to optimise it for ARM. When you look at a 1U server from any other vendor invariably you get one server. Where our server is a 1U Server but there are eight fully-functional Linux Servers in there with their own CPU, memory, and storage that can operate independently or be clustered together, which is why we get such massive throughput and such incredible density. You’ll get a lot more compute in a lot less space. Rose Ross: So I was going to ask you when you’re talking about that, in light of that, and I am going to have to ask you about why you’re called Bamboo Systems as well, and it wasn’t just so you could have a product called PANDA, but, obviously it’s very positive from an eco-perspective that you’re not using as much power, but I presume that also means that the heat that is generated for the same compute power is considerably less, and we all know that heat in data centres is a huge problem. Tony Craythorne: Yes. So I’ve got a slide that I use, or my sales team uses that does a direct comparison against us and a Dell configuration. We’re coming in, in terms of power about 75 percent less actual power, and that saves hundreds of thousands of pounds in terms of energy cost. But then our thermo output is 80 percent less than a typical x86 server. So the environmentals to run Bamboo Servers are so much better. Not only are we drawing less power, but we’re also emitting far less heat. So it’s just a far more cost-effective solution. And then one of our first customers, who happen to be the world’s seventh largest company, and you can’t make this up! Rose Ross: We’re working out who that is now. Tony Craythorne: Very large oil and gas company, let’s put it that way. They’re under legislation to reduce their CO2 output, and they contacted us all excited before they placed their first order, they’d calculated how much CO2 emissions we would save in metric terms, and it’s absolutely nuts. We’re saving about 75 percent compared to an x86 equivalent. Everything’s coming out about 75 to 80 percent cheaper believe it or not. So, we went and had some fun with that, we went to the website that they showed us, and we did some calculations. If somebody were to replace, and this would never happen in real life, but if somebody were to replace their entire data centre with Bamboo Servers, it would save something like 490,000 barrels of oil per year, or is the equivalent of about 350,000, less people flying from Heathrow to JFK. It’s quite staggering the savings on CO2. And as everybody moves towards net-zero, obviously being able to reduce that carbon footprint is a huge part. It’s something that you’re going to see, us really pushing that message. Rose Ross: Totally, and that certainly is going to be a consideration for people. Interestingly enough, when we first set up the Tech Trailblazers we had a Sustainable IT category, but over time it became such a common part of the whole infrastructure conversation that it really didn’t make sense. So you probably would have won that as well if we’d have still been having that. So you could have almost got a hat-trick. Tony Craythorne: Yeah, it would have been pretty good. Rose Ross: Yes, absolutely. So, anyway I did threaten to ask you why Bamboo Systems, why did you choose the name Bamboo… and I’m going to make you responsible unless Victoria wants to pipe in. Tony Craythorne: I’ll tell you the exact truth. The company when I joined, we were called Kaleao, and when my wife couldn’t spell Kaleao trying to send me an email, I realised that we needed to change the name. So, we got a good friend of mine, and my chairman’s, who is brilliant at branding. We ran an exercise over a couple of days, and we started coming up with all these names. And this is exactly how it happened Rose, I’m sat in the room with my chairman and a few other folks working through it, and he just leant over to me and went, ‘We should call it Bamboo.’ I looked at him like he was crazy or whatever, but then we carried on moving through it, and the more we thought about it, looking at the company’s objectives of being far more energy efficient, being good for the environment, being able to get more compute and do more for less, all things pointed back to it. I’m a firm believer, as is my chairman, that whoever owns the brand is going to own the market. We wanted to do something different, we wanted to be cool. On the front of our server we’ve got a piece of real bamboo on the front of the server, it’s very, very unique. Rose Ross: Sounds very Grand Designs to me, are you sure you haven’t got Kevin McCloud on a retainer perhaps? Tony Craythorne: It’s really cool. And as I said earlier, we’re having so much fun with this brand, we really are. Rose Ross: Good, well fun is always good, and it sounds like it’s going very well, as well as being a lot of fun. So let’s have a look at your sort of journey. So that’s about Bamboo and how it’s come about, and a little bit more about how it fits into the whole data centre, the cloud, that whole environment. So let’s talk about Tony. How did you end up being in this situation? Because you’ve got a bit of a storage background having been with Nexsan, and also at NexGen before they were acquired. Then Komprise prior to that, so tell us how you came to being the CEO and one of the founders of Bamboo. Tony Craythorne: My background is, as you can see, I’m a recovering sales and marketing guy. I started my journey – my career as an inside sales advisor, an engineer actually but they kicked me out of that after about three months and moved me into sales. I started off working for distributors and resellers as a sales guy. I made my way up, I worked for a pretty large reseller called Computacentre for a while. I’ve still got a load of friends from there. And then made my way to what is, or was, the world’s largest storage distributor, a company called Bell Micro, it was actually Ideal Hardware at the time, and I ran sales. I ran the enterprise sales for Europe there. They’re the company that moved me over to the US, they moved me to San Jose. So, I spent literally my entire career in channel, working within the channel, but then I moved across to the dark side and went to Brocade, we had global channels there, I ran the global mid-range business at Hitachi Data Systems, and then went off and started doing the startup thing, which is something that I really, really enjoy because working for small companies you can really have an impact. If you’re working for a huge company you’ve got to rise about the noise a little bit, but I did alright. And yeah I did a few various startups, some went well, some not so well, but at Komprise I was very happy there, we were probably one of the fastest growing software companies in Silicon Valley. But then I got the call from my chairman, he got approached for this job, his name’s Geoff Barrall, he’s very, very well-known in the Valley, he’s been my CEO twice before and he’s a great personal friend of mine. He got the call; he’d just taken the role of CTO at Hitachi Vantara and then they made him exec chairman and asked him to go find a CEO. God knows why he chose me! I’m a first-time CEO etc. but I’m very, very lucky that I’ve got people like Geoff and others who I’ve been able to learn from. I try to model the way that I work and run the company in the same way as the best people I’ve ever worked for. Sometimes I get it right, sometimes I probably don’t, but yes I’m enjoying it. It’s fun – it’s hard work, and the last 12 months has been incredibly challenging, but yes it’s fantastic. Rose Ross: Yes, well we can talk a that a little bit but around the whole startup side of things too. But listening to your career, I got the impression – because obviously Geoff and his colleagues are not daft, they’ve done very well! Not just in their choice of you, but I’m wondering whether it’s the importance of the channel for Bamboo as being part of that. The fact that you really…channel – chop you in half and there’ll be the word ‘channel’ etched inside you. Tony Craythorne: Absolutely, yes. Rose Ross: Is there where you guys are seeing the future? Because direct sales is a challenging model to take, and it is traditionally the American way primarily, certainly in the States. But from your European background and also my experience of it, is that you aren’t successful in Europe unless you can develop the channel, there’s no just trying to knock on doors yourself. Tony Craythorne: Correct. My theory of building a channel is it’s like raising a small child, is you have to feed it, educate it, get it standing on its own two feet. But the one thing that I know and if the CEO of any of our distributors or VP sales, if any of our distributors watch this they’re going to shoot me, but I know that channel would never make the market for you, we have to do that. So, our strategy – and this is a strategy that I’ve always deployed when in my sales and marketing psyche is we are a direct touch organisation, i.e. we go out to generate the demand, we go out to generate the leads, but then we’re 100 percent channel fulfillment. So, we don’t take the deal direct. The only deal we would take direct is, we’ve got a growing OEM business, so we’re dealing with companies that are integrating our product into something else. We will sell that direct. But I’ve just always been a firm believer that if you’ve got the right partners and you build it, you can show them the path to success of your product, you amplify yourselves by thousands of percent. Again, because of my background because I’ve always worked with partners, I’m so lucky, the same partners come with me to every job that I have, and they get behind me. So we’ve got a fantastic distributor over here, we’ve got a fantastic distributor in Europe, we’ve got one in India believe it or not – these guys are incredible, The Zen Group, and we’re getting knocked on the door all the time for new relationships. And then we’ve built up a network, I don’t believe in going to sign 500 resellers, it’s easier to sign a new reseller, it’s a lot harder to get them selling. So, we’ve been very selective who we’re working with from a var stand-point to get the right clients. Go figure, there’s no mythical server and storage channel out there, they’re all the same people selling the same products. So, our job is to help them grow their margin, their market share, and their customer satisfaction. Having run resellers and distributors, that’s an area of things that I woke up and thought about every day. So, that’s what our sales effort and our product strategy is, it’s how we can help to make more money, get new customers, and have very happy customers. So, if we tick those boxes we do okay. Rose Ross: Good, well that’s good to hear. So, now let’s give you some stargazing. You’ve answered all the other questions far too easily, I’ve got to give you something to… So, from our perspective one of the things is we’re 10 years old now, so we’re thinking about working with amazing companies like you and putting a bit of a spotlight on you guys, and some of your predecessors, the Halls of Fame of – very well-stocked with some pretty amazing companies, and pretty amazing people. So, if we were to look the other way, not looking back on what we’ve achieved but perhaps looking forward, Tony, what do you see are going to be some of the things that we’re going to be talking about. If we have this conversation again in 10 years’ time, and you’re either with Bamboo or with another startup, what will be the things that we’ll be discussing? What will be the trends that you think will unfold over the next 10 years? Tony Craythorne: I think the whole clean tech energy side of things is going to become more and more prevalent. I take it for granted that well this bloody thing Siri goes off all the time, right. Artificial intelligence – I could take a phone call on my watch now, that was something you used to watch in Star Trek ten years ago. Machine learning and AI are, I believe, going to change the dynamic on every part of technology in ways that we don’t even know yet. We take things like Alexa for granted, nobody cares how it works, we just say, ‘Alexa…’ fortunately mine’s switched off otherwise she’d go off. Rose Ross: I was going to say, don’t say anything because mine will go off! Tony Craythorne: I keep her off now. But it’s really hard for me to predict where that technology is going to go. The whole thing around genomics and sequencing, I very nearly disclosed something that I shouldn’t have done then because a very large genomics firm just bought some of our servers for one of their new products, and I nearly said what it is, and I shouldn’t. There is so much innovation going in waves right now that we couldn’t have even imagined 10 years ago, it’s really, really hard for me to sit here and say, ‘This is going to be the next thing… this is going to be the next thing.’ Look at NVIDIA, a GPU company, they’ve built a product for gaming and now look they literally dominate everything, they are the biggest chip manufacturer in the world. Who would have thought that 10 years ago? So, I’m dodging the question really badly, but it’s really hard for me to predict. In my particular sector in 10 years’ time if IDC and Gartner are right and I’m still in business, and I’ve executed; hopefully I’m sitting on top of a pretty big company that has changed the market, because Intel has dominated everything, Hyperconverged came along but that’s still Intel. What’s happening now around Arm servers could literally be a paradigm shift. One of our biggest customers actually sent an unsolicited email saying – the same oil and gas customer – that Bamboo Servers will create shockwaves through the oil and gas industry, because of the way things have to be done now. So, it’s really hard for me to predict, really hard. I answered that really badly. Rose Ross: No, I put you on the spot a little bit with that. And now to turn it to the same timeframe, and obviously you’ve been around startups for a long time, we have been dealing with a global pandemic, which obviously has impacted everybody, both on a personal level, professional level, there is no part of our lives that hasn’t been impacted in one way or another. But obviously that’s driven some businesses to basically accelerate, some obviously have stalled, it depends very much, unfortunately, on where you’re sat in that whole dynamic of the shift that we were experiencing and are experiencing still. So, obviously not just the technology landscape will change considerably over the next 10 years, but potentially the way that startups are. Tony Craythorne: Correct. Rose Ross: So if you were setting up Bamboo in 10 years’ time, what do you think would be the challenges perhaps that you’re not facing now. What would be different, I suppose? Tony Craythorne: March last year we went into lockdown, I was actually in the middle of raising money. I was talking to a couple of VCs, a typical startup, we didn’t have years of cash, we only had months of cash etc. but we were doing pretty good and then the global pandemic hit. I’m just sitting there with my head in my hands thinking, now what? Literally, now what? We’re not a big company but every employee and their family are relying on me, and I’m sitting there thinking ‘what the hell do we do?’ I’m so lucky, I’ve got fantastic investors, and a fantastic board and they re-upped and put some money into the company. But what it’s taught me is, as a startup – we’re used to this now right, we’re sitting here on Zoom, I never used this before, I’d talk on a conference call, but I never used video. I think it was a month or two into COVID that I’m sitting there thinking, I haven’t seen any of these people, I don’t even know whether they’re in their home or where they are. So, I did a mandate, I forced the entire company, and everybody hated it, the entire company to go on this video and switch the camera on. And watching people’s hair was quite incredible, one of our engineers could develop this huge head of hair like I’d never seen before, it’s pretty easy for me, I clip it. But what it’s taught me is, you can do business anywhere now, you’ve got the ability because of this, because of Zoom or whatever video conferencing that you use, you’ve got the ability to sell anywhere. I recently hired a guy that’s worked with me – this is our third company, I don’t know why we keep punishing ourselves, a guy called Andy Hill, he runs sales for me. I hired him originally to run European sales, and I was going to do the same, selling out here. Then I stopped and thought about it, and thought well Christ, these first meetings you have you would usually have a sales team deployed geographically, but now everybody’s so used to this, you can sell anywhere. So I think the opportunity for a startup now is you can get a global reach, you can get to a global customer without having to have people in-country or locally at that point. I think that just gives everybody the opportunity to accelerate their sales. We’ve done business in the US, in Europe, in Saudi Arabia, and in Asia, we’ve already done business there without me or anybody having to get on a plane, which is what would usually happen. So, I think a startup now has got a true opportunity to target a global customer base from absolutely anywhere because nobody cares where you are anymore. And what you also have the opportunity to do is hire the best people. I’ve always been somebody who’s a big believe of always hire the best person for the job, no matter where they are. But when there’s a corporate headquarters function etc, people always want to be by HQ. I’ve never believed that I’ve always thought hire the best person, but now the opportunity to do that – because when you’re a startup, the people you hire are the most important thing. If you get that wrong you’re buggered, that’s it you’ve had it. But now you could hire the best person, you can talk to them daily, you can get to know them, you can chat regardless of where you are. So, I think that’s the only good thing that’s come out of COVID to be honest, is it’s changed the way that we work, and we communicate, this has become the norm and I don’t think that’s ever going to change. Rose Ross: So, it is a level playing field. We were very fortunate that our awards never focused around a black-tie dinner, anything like that. I’ve watched people having to reshuffle their business models. We always like the idea of being global, and to do that was to kind of run it as a virtual awards. Tony Craythorne: Yes, it worked really well. I posted on Facebook, and my company posted it on LinkedIn, we won another award, and I had to sit at my desk with a tux on. I had my tux on, my dicky-bow… Rose Ross: And you didn’t wear it today, what’s going on? Tony Craythorne: No, no, no, but I had my shorts and my flip flops on, I was sat like this accepting the award and that’s how I was dressed. It was a bit odd actually, but it was funny. Rose Ross: Yes, it’s all good. We’re talking about awards, what did it mean to you to win a Tech Trailblazer award? Because you’re a relatively young company, I’m not sure, where are you with your fundraising at the moment? Tony Craythorne: We’re still pre-Series A. Rose Ross: Wow. So, yes that’s reasonably unusual. We have a Firestarters category which is based on being very young, so two years and under and pre-Series A funding. But, in reality we tend to see that the winners of a category are Series B to C, so three to four years old. So, you’re a little bit ahead of the curve, what I will tell you though Tony, not that I like to have a crystal ball, but we do find that within the 6 months to 12 months after winning, people do tend to do quite a big raise. Not that I want to ever try and get an exclusive, ‘Seen here first’ but I wouldn’t be at least surprised if those VCs might be knocking on your door again now, rather than you having to do the other way around. Tony Craythorne: Well, one thing about being a CEO of a young startup or any startup, is you’re always fundraising. I seem to spend half my life talking to VCs at the moment. Again we’re very lucky that I’ve got fantastic investors, we’ve got money in the bank we’re in good shape, but we are fundraising, always. But to us, this year is about to try to build a product and launch a product in the middle of a global pandemic was actually quite challenging, and I’m playing that down a little bit. We launched the product last year and then our office – we’re a hardware product, so software we can be remote, but hardware people need to be there touchy-feely, building and designing it, and that had challenges. One person gets COVID and the whole office is out, so we go down two weeks in a row. Then with the knock-on effect of COVID was global supply chain issues, which we’re still seeing now. So, our product was a little bit later than planned coming out to market, and that was just a massive challenge, but we got through it. The company has actually been around for quite a while, it needed a reboot and a restart, which is when I was brought onboard, and my chairman was brought onboard, that’s two years ago. Yeah, we’re doing okay, it’s quite incredible actually, it really is. Rose Ross: Well you’re not doing okay; you’re doing a bit more than okay, really. I mean you’ve won the Tech Trailblazers in the Cloud category, which is one of our most subscribed to categories, along with Security, and some of the ones are rising stars in that regard, and you mentioned you’ve also picked up another accolade as well. How important are those types of things for the team, for you? I mean, you obviously entered for a reason, it wasn’t just one of Victoria’s crazy moments where she thought, ‘Hey, let’s divert some thoughts and put together…’ what we consider is a bit like a ‘VC pitch light’, kind of. That’s what we tend to ask you to put together, on the basis that most startups will have that material. But also it’s what we should be judging you on. How important is that type of third-party recognition for you? Tony Craythorne: It’s fantastic obviously externally, but you’d be shocked, internally as well. When you’re developing a product, 99 percent of the company are engineers, and for me to let it go back to them and say, ‘Look at what we’ve just won, and look at the work that you’ve done taking a great idea and turning it into a real product,’ because it’s easy to have a great idea about a product but turning it into a real product is an art form, both from an engineering standpoint, but also from an operations-manufacturing and distributions standpoint. For me to be able to go back to the team and go, ‘Look guys, look at what you’ve done,’ it’s a great motivator for the whole company. But then obviously externally, we market the crap out of it as well, it’s on our website, we did a press release… blah-blah-blah. It’s just really good validation that what you’re doing is making a difference, it’s different and we’re innovating. As a startup you’ve got to be innovating because you’re competing against established companies, and other companies that are trying to do the same as you. So, to try and breakout of that noise is hard work, you’ve got to execute well, and you’ve got to have a lot of luck as well. To win awards like Tech Trailblazers is just fantastic, it really is. It just helps that credibility with the industry, but also I never overlook what it does to the people internally as well. To me that’s the most important thing. Rose Ross: Yes, because it is hard being in a startup sometimes, and certainly this year has been particularly challenging for everybody, so all support and recognition is very valid. Tony Craythorne: Yes, absolutely. Rose Ross: Well hopefully we’ll see you again in future, we’re ramping up in June, so I’m sure Victoria will be putting that into her calendar. Is there anything else that you’d like to go through before we wrap up, for the viewers and listeners? Tony Craythorne: I don’t think so. It’s been a hell of a year, all of us have lived through this past 14 months since the world went into lockdown, and so therefore we’ve just got on with it, and we’ve had to. Obviously, history is going to look back at this being literally an historic moment in human civilisation, it’s just been unbelievable. But, we’ve been able to get through it and I want to thank my team because I’m very, very lucky that I’ve got great people around me that do great things. I can look back at the last couple of years, but especially being a first-time CEO, it’s not an easy job – everybody thinks CEO you get overpaid etc. When we were fundraising last year and COVID hit I cut the entire company’s salary by 20 percent, and I cut my own by 50 percent, and I paid back the entire company, it was so nice paying them back when money hit the bank. But in this job it’s a hard job, it’s a very lonely job, but if you’ve got a great team and great people around you, which I’m so lucky I do, both working in the organisation and then people to help me coach me when I have no idea what I’m doing, which I don’t know if you’ve ever read the book, ‘The hard things about hard things’ by Ben Horowitz, there’s a chapter in there called ‘The Struggle’ and they polled about 100 CEOs who all confirmed that they have no idea what they’re doing 80 percent of the time. It just made me laugh, it’s so true. Rose Ross: I’ll say no comment on that one! Tony Craythorne: I’m just very, very lucky. I’m very, very lucky I’ve got a great team, got great people around me, and a great family supporting me as well. So, let’s see what happens over the next 12 months. Rose Ross: Fantastic. Well, I wish you continued success, we do look forward to welcoming you, and I’m sure we will keep in touch. Tony Craythorne: Yes, absolutely. Rose Ross: When you are over hopefully we’ll get an opportunity to meet in person. Tony Craythorne: It would be great, fantastic. Thank you so much Rose, I’ve enjoyed this. Rose Ross: No problem. Well, thanks again Tony Craythorne who is the CEO of Bamboo Systems, our Cloud Tech Trailblazer winner last year. And thank you everyone for listening, or viewing, and you can find out more about the Tech Trailblazers at www.techtrailblazers.com and/or follow us on Twitter @techtrailblaze, no R, no S, or find us on LinkedIn. Thanks again, and I’m Rose Ross, I’m the founder of Tech Trailblazers, and thanks again to you Tony. Tony Craythorne: Thanks Rose, take care.